Facebook has witnessed heated debate about silver medalist Vijay Kumar's alleged comment (which the flustered soldier denied much later) that he would quit the army if he were not promoted to officer rank.
It is quite apparent from the tone and tenor of those posts that Indian Army officers regard him as a selfish ungrateful loner who is forgetting how much the army has done for him (which is to train him, first in basic army weapons training and then in the Army Marksmanship Unit in Mhow). This group of posters believes that the status of officer is too high for Vijay Kumar.
Another less vocal group feels that Vijay Kumar should be immediately promoted to officer rank. Their logic, as I understand it, is that he has done so much more than anyone else with the facilities that are available to everyone in the army. Merit and achievement must be rewarded. And what's so special about officer rank that Vijay Kumar can't have it? Is it just that he can't speak English very well?
Post your comments. And mention whether you're a serving officer, a retired officer, or have never been an officer of the Indian Army.
Yes He should be promoted
ReplyDeleteI do see points in both cases. Why doesn't the army use his experience and expertise to further train young cadre's or give experience to existing marksmen. I know Olympic shooting is quite different from real life but without talent, hard work and self-determination you do not become the second best in the world. Every coin has two sides, lets use the better half.
ReplyDeleteNegative... just because he asked for it from his big mouth.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to Vijaykumar. However, winning an Olympic medal should not be the criteria for promotion in ones profession. I have to say this but one eyed is the king among a village full of blinds. It's good to encourage other sports besides cricket, but we seem to make starts out of our medal winners. Probably because Indians winning a medal is a rare event, unlike China, US, and other countries. To me it's a shame that we do not win more. We have the second most populous nation in the world and yet we cannot even win 1/4 of what some of the other top medal winners do. The medal winners need to be recognized, but not to the point that they get cocky and begin to think of themselves as much more than what they really are.
ReplyDeleteVijay Kumar should be adequately and appropriately rewarded for winning the silver medal. However, that doesn't mean that he should be promoted to the rank of an officer in the army.
ReplyDeleteThe rationale here is that winning the silver medal requires a different set of skills, while leading men into battle and taking decisions in split seconds that have life-and-death consequences requires different set of skills.
In my opinion, the two sets of skills are not comparable.
Status: never been in the army...
I would be curious to know what armymen , Colonel Shukla and other experts think about it. There are certain procedure and If he deserves he should get it. But I dont have enough knowladge on how things work in this scenario. Would be interesting and informative to know.
ReplyDeleteIt is not logical ,tomorrow if an illetrate person wins GOLD MEDAL for India can he be made IAS.
ReplyDeleteVijay Kumar can be and should be compensated in other ways.
I think its quite simple - If the Army has stated somewhere that getting an Olympic medal is an alternate to all the qualifications required to be an officer then he should have it, if not he needs to meet all the requirements.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I think the man deserves to be rewarded in some way for his achievement.
Cujo - neither active, retired nor planning to be in the service.
Let him be given a honorary commission. That way he does not need to command troops and he gets, rank, pay, recognition. Alternatively, give him a TA commission. He can hold the rank without the need to be embodied. We need to bridge the status divide intelligently.
ReplyDeleteBecoming an officer has nothing to do with getting an olympic medal. If Vijay Kumar had the required competencies to become an officer, he would have been one already. His reward, for his achievement, is the glory, publicity and money he has received.
ReplyDeleteIn fact Vijay Kumar is guilty of maligning the very institute that helped make him sucessfull. Shame on him.
- Hari
Serving Officer:
ReplyDeleteWhat if he wins another Olympic medal? Will he be made a Brigadier? Then why didn't Rajyavardhan Rathore get a promotion to General?
Is Param Vir Chakra higher than the Olympics Silver Medal ? If yes, why didn't all those soldiers also not become officers? if its lower, we need to think about our priorities!
No, I dont believe that this or 5 gold medals warrants him becoming an officer. A promotion at may be.
ReplyDeleteDid Rathore get a promotion ? Answer that first.
ReplyDeleteIf Vijay wants to leave let him go.Maken should hold his peace.
Vijay I suppose will have to reire as a SM AFTER 4 YEARS .Am I RIGHT?
RC /SL in course of time.
Does a MVC get a battle field commission? Is valour cheap
Status: Army Brat, ex GC
ReplyDeleteHe has used the army facilities, as have many others, and achieved what no one else, bar one officer, has. He must be rewarded. He should be must be given an honorary rank immediately and then brought up to the level, not just English, of an officer, else he will not fit in and may quit.
Any other organisation would happily take him in at officer level, but can they keep him shooting straight and quick?
Yes should be granted. In a population of more than a billion we are not capable of producing a mentally tough sportsman who can deliver at critical times.ASI does do a lot towards training but what happened to the rowers.It is a pride for the country be it defeating the enemy in battle during war or winning against tough competition during peacetime. Anyday 1000 times better than a service medal
ReplyDeleteas usual ajai sir u vl speak in tones of offcrs...only...vry sad to hear this frm u
ReplyDeleteTHE JAWAN HAS WORKED HARD AND WON ASILVER MEDAL . SINCE BEING INTHE ARMY FOR OVER5YRS HE HAS BASIC PT DRILL ARMS TRAINING TO HIS CREDIT .
ReplyDeleteDEVISE A SPECIAL SYLLABUS FOR HIM FOR 6 TO 9MONTHS TRAINING AT IMA OR OTS AND PROMOTE HIM TO A 2ND LT DURING TRG AND CAPT WITHIN 2 YRS . HE WILL BE HAPPY AND ARMY WILL GAIN IN RIO.PROMOTE HIM TOMAJ RANK WITH 5 YRS SERVICE AND LTCOL IN 10 YRS AFULL COL
IN14 YRS AND BRIG IN18 YRS RETIREHIM AT 20 YRS WITH PENSION OF A LTGEN.GIVE THE SAME TO ALL NDA AND IMA OTS OFFICERS . ALL OFFICERS AND THEIR FAMILIES WILL BE HAPPY
LCDR RETD
CAPT ASHOK CARROL
d so calld great chief of army accrdng to u says " suicide of one jawan doesnt make any.diffrnce...its an isolated case."..had any offcr committd suicide i wud love to know his rectn thn...shame on him...and whn ths jawan has done something which d whole country is proud of u offcrs r jealous of giving him offcr rank..
ReplyDeletethts why said othr central group a offcrs r much bttr thn thr military countrpart....at least most of thm dont discriminate.thr subordinates like armed frces offcrs
Of course one should not undermine his achievement of winning an olympic medal.
ReplyDeletebut media and Maken should understand that he cant be made officer just like that, understand the future repurcussions of it.
ask him to clear SSB where his OLQs are tested then he could be made officer. May be given lee way for ACC course as he had seen enough in the world to learn all these things.
in future many more from army are going to win the medal, will they or can they make everyone an officer.
politicians and emotions are temporary but army as a System is a permanent, don't unnecessarily change the system.
May be his army training did not restrain him to vent his ire at the olympic podium itself... unfortunate...
not branding him nor demeaning Men as a whole but there is old saying....
Men wil remain Men
I am from Defence forces and an Officer
I will go with first opinion
ReplyDeleteMake him an officer. In any case not many are willing to join the army. Atleast statistically one less deficiency of officer.
ReplyDeleteAs also so many idiots are already serving one more or one less will hardly make any difference.
Need to reward him well. Give him the choice either become an officer or take few crores. Let him decide his future.
Shukla, promotion is based on merit and behavior in actual adversarial condition. Winning Olympic medal is not merit not it is demonstration of behavior in difficult situation. Therefore, it does not deserves promotion. But it deserves all benefits that Olympian get from the country.
ReplyDeleteI think somebody need to explain this to him and not silly language issue
Thank God, this guy dint want to become the President of India after winning a silver medal in Olympics.. what an idiot.. People who really achieved great in sports are silent and this guy just won a silver medal and speaks too much.... sad that the army has promoted this guy..is army a sports club or a force that is supposed to protect a nation?
ReplyDeleteAjai ji thanks for the photos.. this guy looks like one perfect clown in army dress hahaha :-);-)
Ordinary Citizen:
ReplyDeleteIs Olympic competition different from battlefield action in terms of soldier's psychological performance under pressure? If somebody answers yes it's different, then either there is something wrong in their psych profile or they have never seen battlefield action. Similar to battlefield promotions given for valorous service in defense of nation, this soldier has done meritorious service by achieving a historic medal at Olympics. His talent and service to nation should not be ridiculed and instead be made a source of inspiration for others to emulate. Whether rank promotion and national award should be conferred on him is simply a non-issue. These should be provided by default, if we are to ever produce world champions capable of taking on the World at world stage events such as Olympics.
Anyone who denies this to a soldier his dues is a selfish, arrogant hypocrite!
just one question- do we honour our gallantry award winners (or their families, if posthumously awarded)with even an iota of this bloke gets?
ReplyDeleteYes, reward him through promotion. Every organisation should have policy to reward extraordinary achievements. Because such extraordinary acts bring extraordinary laurels to the organisation and boost the image of the ARMY as a whole. It enthuses all other serving people of the ARMY as well.
ReplyDeleteDon't promote General Deepak Kapoor as President of India.
I think he deserves the rank as it is worthy of the acheivment, and as you've mentioned what is it that an officer rank would need more than thr true spirit of hard work and dedication which he has proved in the Olympics, if speaking English would have been the only majour requirement then much of those who pass the ssb would need re examination.
ReplyDeleteI am a civilian with fauji background. He showed his true colours by blabbering against the same institution that got him here. The most disgusting part was that he did that in a foreign land. Could't he wait for a few days and make his demands in India, in front of his CO or other senior officer. I am they would've listened to him. This thankless hack should be removed from the sports training facility and marched back to his unit where he might put his shooting skills to better use killing terrorists. Compare his action against the dignity of Mary Kom, who for the most Indians still remains a fuckin Chinki.
ReplyDeleteyes and yes!!!!!!!! what's the problem?
ReplyDeleteYes_ I have never been an officer of the Indian Army.
ReplyDeleteIn my personal view, I dont think he should be in that post, Officer Rank is not something that can be given to anyone like what we witness in TA, I belive officer post should be consider for War heros like Yongendra Singh Yadav the Kargil Hero who won Medal for Extra Ordinary Courage in battle field.
ReplyDeleteno. he can be given a hefty cash award. promotion should be based on merit. particularly in armed forces.
ReplyDeleteyes, he is a smart,articulate, achiever & god knows we have a huge shortage of officers in the Indian Army..I think he is more commission worthy than many other ACC candidates, who get there by sifaarish & reasons, other than merit.
ReplyDeletewho's the arbitrator of commission worthiness, anyway..if this fine representative of our Army is not an officer-worthy candidate..then, can these officer's come forward & identify what makes them so qualified for this honour??
He should not be promoted, and for that matter granting officers Rank to sportsmen like Sachin, kapil dev etc also should be discouraged. They may be the best in their field, but giving away these ranks on a platter is doing injustice to those who got these ranks through hardwork and their toil.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for this Olympic winner is concerned, if he had demanded an officer rank, that is a balckmail which one should never submit to.
A Retired Army Officer
he should be promoted as per army policy. however, the government should find a way to promote him to IAS officer as announced by government for some other sportsperson. well, is not it clear it is easier to become IAS than an officer in the armed forces from all this.. IAS is a service but a commission in the armed forces is earned.
ReplyDeleteHe should have a starring role in the next "Magic Mike" movie immediately. It could be called "Magic Mike: Vijay's Leg V"
ReplyDeleteNO, IN FACT HE SHOULD BE SENT OUT OF SERVICE IMMEDIATELY. U CANNOT USE THE FACILITIES OF THE ORG AND DEMAND FOR MORE IN THE DAYS TO COME. HIS ARROGANCE WILL SET A WRONG PRECEDENCE.
ReplyDeletei am astonished on the cry to give him an officer rank. why dont we first consider showering money/rank etc to our gallantry award winners/their families(posthomous cases), who make the ultimate sacrifice. this is just a medal.
ReplyDeleteThe opportunity to become an officer must be given. There are options of ACC / SL commission. In either case the SSB has to be cleared. In case he does not clear it and his ambitions are curtailed in the Army then he must be allowed to go as per the rules existing.His possible fear could be is the money from the Advts and other Portfolio Managers may not come his way if he continues in Mhow.
ReplyDeleteLt Col Manoj K Channan(Retd)
hardcore battle hardened men,who know where,when and how to hit the enemy. promote these men to build a formidable army. war is always a playground for the cold blooded animals,not for those who prefer tea over the great game of gambling for victory.
ReplyDeleteregards
Arun
Ajai sir
ReplyDeleteAnswer is a big 'No'
army as a institution is still free from ambit of favors. If one is given promotion just because he got silver medal then there are lot of people who have done bigger things but have not got any post or rank or favors bcoz of that, example Bana Singh.
Even Athens silver winner Rathore i belive was not promoted just bcoz he won a medal.
Vijay has been promoted as Subedar Major and if he wants Officer Rank he should give exam and then get it by clearing the exam.
thats about it
thanks
Joydeep Ghosh
Sir,
ReplyDeleteKindly see civil side. Haryana Government is granting officer rank to the national-players in State-Police, who are even not fully qualified.
What is wrong, if Subedar Major Vijay Kumar, has asked for promotion to the rank of officer. Is there any loss to the Army, if granted officer rank to him. In fact, it will be a morale-booster and welfare to the deserving person. It has been seen, in the past also, that Army do not do what can be done 'in house' for the welfare of their personnel. Be positive and accept his request, if in the parameters of the Army and deem it in order.
Thanking you.
Dhan Singh
Let him leave the army!.
ReplyDeleteIn the mid 90's a lot of naval sailors with diving courses under their belt left the navy to join the civilian diving industry.
The only reason the sailors could get a foothold in the commercial diving industry was because theNavy had trained a sailor in diving but also in other facets that enabled him to survive in a competitive Indian diving world. The result of navy sailors coming in the civilian diving industry saw a remarkable FALL of diving salaries in India. Divers were working for less than 20 USD wherein foreign counterparts were at 200 USD. Even today where the rate is 600-800 per day USD, Indian companies do not pay more than 300 USD and trainees are still stuck at usd20/day.
A lot of officers from the navy thought it was hay day in the civilian industry and joined ROV training programes. It is well known that Indian ex navy officers in survey and ROV are paid much less than even eastern block countries!!! Why..because the Indian sailer and officer thought that civilians will treat him with the same respect and even more in contrast to the navy. This is a big fallacy shared by soldiers and officers in all the ranks. The civilian industry especially like diving is free lancing, contract based and companies would make a person sit home for 4 months just to drastically drop the rates....the soldier/officer who always had rations, a secure job, and an environment that was better than any civilian industry now was faced with a great dilemma.
If the shooter thinks that he is going to make it big or bigger in the civilian world due to his markmanship, let him just have a tour of the sportsperson of indian who have mostly dies in poverty. On the other hand the armed forces will always be open to blackmail if it gives in now.
The army to be benevolent should just tell the sportsman, that if he resigns and cannot find work in the civilian world on the grounds of his olympic medal, they would re recruit him with a lower rank!
Civilian here - never served, never will (probably too old even for the TA).
ReplyDeleteNo promotion to an officer.
Is he officer material? Then he can try becoming one the same way other soldiers can.
What is the special thing he has done that all other soldiers KIA have not done? I know, been an ungrateful M.F.
the comments show how fickle minded and low level achievers the army officers are . infront of IAS officers these future generals are
ReplyDeleteworse than chaprsis. no wonder the babus treat them and kick them like
cat-111 employees. they want perks and privelages like civil services
but with their low level thinking
dont desrve bettr than safai karamcharies. no wonder the men are revoltingand every day suicides are their
He deserves a reward for his achievement. But that does not have to be in the form of a promotion.
ReplyDeleteThe Army needs to be a disciplined force with values of sacrifice, if the Army yields to such demands it is setting a dangerous precedent. His arrogance should be punished.
I would argue that he be rewarded financially and ordered into early retirement or dismissed.
15 years in the future, do you want an Army led by Generals who have experience or Olympic Gold Medalists who shoot paper targets?
Ye Gads , he's the only Olympics medal winner from the Services -put him on a pedestal , make him a role model for other servicemen to emulate, motivate him for gold in Rio -the country will be the gainer.
ReplyDeleteSend him to language school and then to IMA/OTA -let him do the frontrolls and parades to earn his pips.
By the way ,does any one remember the Raksha Mantri announcing every year in Parliament that there is a massive shortage of officers in the Army ??!!
Not in the forces.
ReplyDeleteTo the best of my knowledge, Sub. Vijay Kumar has spent almost his entire career in the Army Marksmanship unit. This would suggest he has never fired a shot in anger. His achievements in the sports arena, while commendable, do not merit an officer commission in the army. Today the papers say that he will be coached to clear class 12 and then given SSB training and then left to his own devices for an SCO entry. This is possibly the best approach to address his grievances. As it is, many CO's are already supporting their men and encouraging them towards SCO entry. That said, i am totally against ''bestowing" an officer commission as a reward for an olympic medal. There may be a lot of criticism of armed forces officers in recent times, but i am still of the opinion that an being an officer in the Indian army is no small thing. It is earned after displaying officer like qualities (english is not a requirement, to the best of my knowledge) and passing a rigorous training schedule. Please don't make this out to be an issue of officers holding the non officer class in contempt. Army officers take care of their men far far better than their civillian counter parts. There will always be a few bad eggs. Let a commission in the armed forces not become a "prize". Sports after all is sports.
A railways player who does well is not made a member of the railwzy board.
Dear Sir,
ReplyDeleteThe concept of rank as a reward is flawed. This has led us to create a large no of additional posts without taking into consideration aspects like job content etc.(AVSC).
Sterling performance must be recognized by grant of awards like VSM series. As has been said above repeatedly, this is what the most gallant and dedicated soldiers receive.
Vociferously opposing grant of officer rank purely because a JCO had the guts to ask for it may not be correct.
Serving Officer
Vijoy kumar should apply for ACC if he meets the QR.His selection through SSB can be relaxed as a special case.
ReplyDeleteAs he will remain busy for next National and International events and will be out From training,he can be passed out from IMA after one/two year with ante date seniority as a spl case.But giving him commission rank without going through SSB and ACC/IMA will be blunder.
follow the rules and precedent if any. No requirement of going overboard just to please one man.The amount he has got in cash a PVC will never get in many lifetimes. No less an achievement by anychance .If need be amend the rules and have QRs. Honorary cpmmission yes but nothing else.
ReplyDeletegurdeep singh
I completely understand why the Olympian wants to capitalize this moment of glory.Our country has a history of not honoring its sporting hero's.Does that translate to a promotion in his army profession or will he have to be satisfied with monetary rewards is a question that is very difficult to answer.But my rational mind tells me that he must make peace with the rewards that has come his way and try and look at the bigger picture of inspiring a new generation of athletes in the army.
ReplyDeleteOrdinary Citizen:
ReplyDeleteThere is always 80/20 distribution of talent in any organization, where 80% is flab and 20% is talented. Indian Armed Forces are no different. This soldier has done something differently thus defying his stereotype character of a dumb soldier. This alone sets him apart from the rest 80%. Another tragic reason being provided is his poor English skills. This really speaks volumes about our lack of respect for national language. If English is criteria for becoming a General, then are all Chinese, Russian, French, Japanese Generals dumb? And English speaking Indian Generals more Talented? I sincerely smell jealously at play among the 80% untalented flab who don't want to see a talented person grow, for the lack of his "Officer" like skills of bleating "yes sir" to any English speaking moron at the helm.
Sad this army still has colonial moorings and heritage in place. Wish Netaji Bose was alive instead of Gandhi and Nehru, things would have surely looked very different. To those cowards hiding in uniforms, don't feel supreme in your cocoon environment, the enemy keeps close watch on your underpar performances.
Col. Shukla,
ReplyDeleteI don't think this case deserves an outright promotion, primarily because of the manner in which the demand was put forward.
However, with due respect to your beloved army, it is funny to see serving & retired officers parroting about OLQs in light of incidents like the recent one at Nyoma. The kind of OLQs one used to associate with officers of the old-school is probably vanishing faster than one can spell 'Indian Army'. It is the men of lesser caliber who will cite abilities of speaking in English or handling a knife & fork as pre-requisites of being an officer but won't accord the minimum respect and consideration due to a fellow human being while treating their sahayaks.
Status: A civilian.
there are important things to discuss, this topic isnt one
ReplyDeleteif dhoni and abhinav bindra can get a rank of an officer why cant he?
ReplyDeletethen by the logic by which he is denied a rank of an officer then no one should get paramvirchakra or mahavir chakra and so on because they are enrolled for the same job and are are trained for that only.
Indian Army still follows the rulebook prepared by British folks during their rule that distinguished officers and non-officers based on knowledge of English for obvious reasons. Today the world is way more different, first all soldiers and officers are Indians of Indian origin, second communication is more important than knowledge of English as majority of force will understand Hindi, third leadership and courage should be recognized over and above anything and winning a medal is a symbol of leadership, dedication and courage, fourth follow traditions of American Armed forces which has command and control but is based on skills required for the job and not knowledge of English.... NDA, CDS, SSB requires a complete overhaul and should be aligned with today's world where machines are taking over men and men are all to be skilled to operate those machines... having uneducated foot soldiers is not sufficient.. and officers should have leadership skill rather than ego...
ReplyDeleteAjai, I would like to post a question for Mr vijay Kumar, will he be able to command men in a crisis situation like an officer if time asks for it, we in army swear to fight for the country, for our men and in last for ourselves. No doubt Vijay has fought for the nation and has made it proud but by asking for out of turn promotion isn't he attacking that very basic foundation upon which entire creed of Indian army has been built upon?? keep aside his leadership skills, as he might not have to use them at all even if there is a war but What would be the question his fellow men would ask?? won't they be lured to join sports rather than serving on the fronts. Asking for something in return for the service you have rendered to the nation has never been an army tradition. We serve without expecting "extra" for our services and that is the reason why army is an oasis amidst the desert of corruption, we are proud to do much more than what we are paid for and I would urge my fellow soldier to not to break that tradition by asking a price for doing something for the nation as a soldier, do not forget you are a soldier. In this debate I don't think it is important to consider the role of AMU MHOW, because its a debate about the ethics of a soldier and not a quarrel on facilities and If you trust me colonel, English has absolutely nothing to do with it, and therefore I would urge you to not to bring this debate down to such levels, because when you bring English in, you unknowingly and unwillingly question the credibility of every single officer who is serving or who has served with the army, its not just the English that makes a men a officer, its much more than that and most of that is not visible in Olympian Vijay Kumar. I don't know if I should ask you or not but can you please change the language of the accusation you have made on the army, at least here, you can keep your beret on, hope you understand.
ReplyDeleteMay be (Depending on you point of view):
A men who belongs to the same creed or just another fellow citizen, up to you as how you take it, lemme know I'm curious for your answer
Give it to him..... Army provides similar facilities to so many sportsmen, But this guy is the only one with such a super achievement. . All qualities of honesty, integrity, loyalty,
ReplyDeleteperseverence, hardwork, mental strength would be there in this world champion.... So why send him to an SSB. And about his english..... His english is better than many ! And the language of the troops he will command will not be english in anycase. Finally... Dont grudge him for saying it in public... He was just trying to improve his REAL circumstances when the nation was willing to listen to him.
hey ashok i totally agree with u...most of d armed frces r doing a job which is a paid leave...my friend who has a brilliant track record n engg didnt gt slctd n air frce ha ha ..as he dosnt kno english...wheras people with more thn 5 arrers gts slctd..why he knos some gud british n americn english... bull shit offcrs r filld n frces nw a dysrcrutd busy n satisfyng thr wives demands....ths fickle mindd offcrs do desrv a big kick
ReplyDeleteYes
ReplyDeleteI fail to see how playing sports is not doing job? especially when army supports sports. I believe sports is the only commission that Vijay Kumar has, if it is not so then something is really wrong. Since he has performed excellent at the highest level, he deserves a promotion.
ReplyDeleteHe needn't have been promoted straightway, usual promotion(at the end of the year or whatever is the policy of army) should have done the job as well. And I also think that asking for promotion in public is not wrong, he hasn't divulged any secret for god sake.
Status: never have been an army officer.
In one word - NO -
ReplyDeleteIf winning a medal is the criterion for becoming an Officer, why are we holding on to things like the UPSC, SSB and there is something called an OLQ. This gentleman has displayed it in large measures by "demanding" the rank.
Phelps should be made the American Supreme Commander (President) of the USA 20 times over going by the same analogy.
Sub Maj, Hony Lt (only if he wins forther)and then Hony Capt(if he still continues to win)
Acceptable to hime- fine.
Or else an Honourable discharge.
SERVING OFFR ....
ReplyDeletewell all my civ frns . firstly lets make certain things clear . there is a hell lot of a diff in Hony rank and commisioned rank !
to make things simple for ur minds .Hony ranks are only symbolic honour and may be given on case to case to ppl whome indian army thinks can act as kind of brand ambassodors . Hony rank offrs don't lead men to war .. period so no ssb or formal trg required . now comes commisioned ranks . to lead men in to battle and that too from the front and not on blog sites like this one requires certain OLQ's and mind u THE SSB FOR INDIAN ARMED FORCES IS ONE of the most toughest and most methodical ones to clear where any tom dick or harry cant pass... the popular eamples are our EX president DR APJ abdul kalam , amitabh bacchan sharukh khan ... all these gentlemen are immensely popular and succesful in thier fields but were not found suitable for indian army ... the whole process of selection can't be written here but whosoever has gone thier knows it well and its tamper proof (the proof for this is still we are one of the finest armies in the world and the fact that we all are still not slaves of western forces ). now about eng being a criteria for becomign an offr and eating by spoons and fork ... u must be kidding me comeon can this be a criteria ????? how shallow ur knowledge is being so educated n working in private sectors .. and the FUCKER who thinks INDIAN ARMED FORCES job is a paid leave bastard with teh very first bullet fired in air u will shit in ur pants !!!! assholoes like u don't know what job army does for its nation ... its for assholes like u that news channels like NDTV showcast pgms like JAIJAWAN so that ppl like u know the hardships of life but asshloes like u at that time are either fucking shagging or getting fucked by some assholes equally ass like u .... sory for the lang but it gives us pain when we silently do our duty at super high altitudes for thankless ppl like u
Congratulations To vijayakumar for the olympic medal.
ReplyDeletean officer is a different ballgame. The army has provided him infrastructure, time and money so that he can hone in his skills.
He should put his skills now groom a number of medal winners or is he wants to become an officer, I am sure there no dearth of proving himself in regular army role.
If he desires to become an officer he should work for it.He will be given opportunities to earn a commissioned officers rank. Surely, the army and the government will and would reward him adequately for getting further laurels in shooting in it's own way as deemed fit. He is not World No 1. Neither has he broken or set any world records. let him work for an olympic Gold next time.Let him not hold our great army to ransom by putting pressure through politicians and the media.And let us not make this such a big issue.
ReplyDeleteThere is a subject called Organizational Behavior that studies and defines the relationship of an organization and its people.
ReplyDeleteA foundational tenet of this subject, similar to Newton's Laws for the subject of Physics, is that a person needs to be rewarded for performance and promoted for potential.
In other words, a jawan who has fought bravely will be recognized for his bravery.
However, his promotion to officer rank will depend on his demonstration of his inherent Officer Like Qualities (OLQ) or his demonstration of his inherent ability to quickly imbibe those OLQ and apply them.
For example, at war, if the flag is hoisted down, it is seen as surrender. In the Battle of Camperdown in 1797 between the British and the Dutch, the mast of the British Admiral Duncan’s flagship fell due to battle damage, along with the British Flag. The lowering of the Admiral’s flag would have signaled surrender to other ships of the British Fleet.
A sailor named Jack Crawford climbed another mast, under intense enemy cannonade and gunfire, and nailed the flag to the mast. It was an act of unprecedented heroism - climbing a mast exposing oneself to every sailor with a gun in the enemy fleet.
The British won. The phrase “nailing the colours” was born, signifying a determination never to surrender. A nailed flag cannot be hoisted down. Jack Crawford was rewarded by the King himself.
However, he remained a sailor, because he did not have any other OLQ that are required for officers. Bravery is one of 30 odd OLQ, and lack of the remaining 29 will disqualify someone from being an officer.
Same for Vijay Kumar. By winning an Olympic medal, he may have demonstrated some OLQ. If he – or any jawan for that matter, demonstrates the complete set of OLQs required, the Army will promote them to officers. Annually, the Services send a significant number of jawans/sailors/airmen demonstrating OLQ for Officer Training.
Conversely, if Vijay Kumar lacks OLQ, then despite winning an Olympic medal, like Jack Crawford, he will not become an officer.
This is the law of Organizational Behavior, as established like Newton’s laws for Physics. Breaking the law will be detrimental to the organization.
Cdr. T Sarkar, Retd.
Tell me very frankly,
ReplyDeleteWaht is the joab and aim of the Armed Forces?
To produce barve men for the defense of the country.
There are many Jco / Or who defend the country much better than officers?
Should they not be made officers?
Is it the charter of the Army to produce Olympian medalist?
If some one does, it is the duty of GoI to rewards him by making him an officer any where but in the Army? Otherwise does not Army makes an officer other brave JCO and OR?
This is not in tune with organisational ethos and culture !
Make him an officer in CRPF... Udhar chalta hai...
Winning a medal in the Olympics does qualify any one for promotion, promotion should be based on having the requisite training, demonstrated ability and merit. Not because an individual is good in a sporting a sporting event. If one desires that an organization or country progress then meritocracy is the prerequisite, not brown nosing and graft. Come on India, don't stoop to the lowest common denominator...... Leave that to the politicians !!
ReplyDeleteBy army brat.
If every single officer in the indian army had all the pre-requisits needed by an officer
ReplyDeletewe would have a lot fewer officers,
Every army including the indian army face this thinning of the officer rank.
Thisyoung man has done us proud. So what if he has a loud mouth and is selfish. He does not portend to be perfect.He has not accepted a bribe, sold army land, leaked any secrets. Maybe the odd (high ranking officer) could have done some of the above
Give the young man a break and break this dogma of them and us.
So Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore should have Been made President of India since he was the first individual Medal winner and already an army Officer.........this is no logic....olympic medals winners of other civil jobs have never put across such a demand .........promotions must not be linked to olympics ............however monerary benefits should.
ReplyDeleteNo, should not be promoted.
ReplyDeleteHe should be capable of leading men in war. That comes with OLQ and IMA training, not by winning olympic medals.
I am a civilian, interested and impressed with armed forces of India
Yes. We have been raised in a culture which has taught us to reduce our demands, stay satiated with what life gives us, and never question authority.
ReplyDeleteFrom someone who has never served in the army, I am of the opinion that a paternalist view from an employer may not always result in the best performance.
It is a pity he got flustered when he voiced his claim. He should have held his ground.
It is a pity that he took back his demand.
Kudos to him for winning a Silver at the Olympics. But does it also qualify him to lead men into battle? Being an Officer in the Indian Army is not like being an officer in any other Govt Service. If ipush comes to shove, at the max, he may be granted Commission into Gen Service only.
ReplyDeleteAnd, anyways, he must be made aware of the fact that it is due to his acheivements that in a span of just 9yrs, he's been made a Subedar Major, a rank that commands a lot of respect. He also can be given a HOny Rk, but grant of commission is just asking for too much.
Serving Officer
ReplyDeleteFirstly, to inform my ill-informed or rather jealous bretheren who think that English is a criteria to clear the SSBs - I dare say, they dont know their ass from their elbow!! Over 80% of the officers getting commissioned today are , to put it decently, "weak" in their english language skills. It is over the years that we develop these youngsters into fine gentlemen with an impeccable command over English, Hindi and if necessary, the language of the Troops they are commanding.
Secondly, to the Idiot who thinks that the Indian Army is cooling its heels now a days,,,, my dear friend, ignorance is bliss they say, and you seem very happy. The vagaries of service life, every alternate tenure of Field, hard training during peace tenures, Counter Insurgency, High Altitude, the JUngles and its illnesses of the North East, a pittance for a salary, constant stress from the home front, and a feeling of guilt for not being able to give sufficient emotional, physical or economic help to troubled ones at home are just a few issues that the armyman deals with everyday. This is just to keep you better informed.
ReplyDeletePut him on track to become an officer. He has shown character in winning an Olympic medal and character is the biggest part in being a fine officer. However, if he has demanded an officer post, that is not becoming of a gentleman. An Officer and a gentleman may be asking too much, but definitely deserves a promotion.
Serving Officer
ReplyDeleteYes - If he meets the educational QRs of being an officer - he should be made one. And he should be made to join the APTC - where he can continue to serve as a SPORTS COACH. He should NOT be commissioned into a fighting arm or service other than APTC unless he is RECOMMENDED by a selection board, like all of us.
Sir,
ReplyDeleteAs many of my friends said that Army has provided many facilities to VK for improving his skills...and He should be thankful than demanding Commission.
I have a counter Argument that these facilities are provided to each and every army men and even an officers have access to these facilities. Why Didn't they got any medals...let alone medals they don't even have the quality to qualify for Olympics barring a Col Rathore.
At the end, I will say if they don't give him commission It will be Army's loss as he'll get a rank equivalent to Civil Servant in HP Govt.
Honorary commission conferred persons are not supposed to execute higher duties other than those they used to. It benefits the awardee in monetary and status up-gradation. Of course, Vijay Kumar must be made honorary officer as a recognition of his world level achievement.
ReplyDeleteServing Officer
ReplyDeleteThe indignance of majority is not understood. The organisation has indeed given him a lot. But he has indeed repaid by proving worthy of every penny spent on him. If he aspires, like everyone, to be promoted and recognised, is he asking for too much? The second issue is about commissioning him into non combat arm? If he could be promoted as Subedar in Infantry, wherein he would be expected to lead men, why cant he be commissioned in the same arm? Thirdly the criticism about asking for the promotion in open media rather than within confines of the organisation. I think he has only done a service by raising an issue and forcing a debate which has highlighted the tunnel vision of both serving and retired officers. Another issue which has been oft quoted is that rules dont permit any promotion beyond SM. Rules have been formulated by mortals like you and me and if their is a will they can always be amended. Or rather if the organisation feels that he deserves promotion all that is required is to initiate a case and seek an exception to the very rules which are presently denying this opportunity. For every govt rule their is a comptent authority empowered make exception. Now that he has already delivered the medal and put up his demand, army should also give a firm yes or no rather than take refuge of rules or policies.
how about making him a fighter pilot?
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