Friday, 30 July 2010
Under Barrel Grenade Launcher (UBGL) developed by the ARDE for the 5.56mm INSAS rifle
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About Author
Colonel Ajai Shukla (Retired) is a columnist, commentator and journalist who covers regional security issues in South Asia and the Indo-Pacific, military technology and India’s defence economy. Read More
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- 155 mm gun purchase: DRDO enters the fray
- The Indian Artillery Project: An Indian journey sa...
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WOW IT WAS SO COOL.....
ReplyDeleteThats realy cool... nice pic if u hav good frns ther tell them to work on ites look to make it Dangerous & Beautiful .
ReplyDeleteManju signing off
Hmmm.Like your job..
ReplyDeleteIt does not look detachable. WTF !!! Bunch of idiots...
ReplyDeleteNow it looks like a warlike machine.
ReplyDeletehey ajai,i wanted to know if indian army have inducted ubgl in large no .or not ,,,if not then when??
ReplyDeleteIt's a good weapon, but needs some major cosmetic changes. Should stop making the orange/ tan colour stock, etc. Change it to all black or white (for snowy terrain), green to dessert camo for the folks who fight in that terrain. Finish should be matte not the glossy that we see everywhere, on truck, tanks etc. etc. Changes such as these will help greatly in improving stealth for our warriors.
ReplyDeleteQuestion how much weight does this device effectively add to the total combat load a grenadier has to carry . Does the extra weight hanging on the barrel improve barrel warping characteristics under sustained fire.what kind of 40 mm ammunition will it take with reference to the lengths of shell it will be able to safely accommodate.
ReplyDeleteI find the SCHAR H grenade launcher much more smaller (my exp playing Modern Warfare 2)
ReplyDeleteAjai, what happened to the MRCA? The report was supposed to be out by the end of July and this is the end of July.
ReplyDeleteAshmann:
ReplyDeleteIt is detachable. How have you concluded that it is not?
Himalaya1111:
Order of 10,000 under manufacture
Anonymous 00:41
The SCMC is the first weapon in which the DRDO has brought in a professional designer for aesthetics and ergonomics. You can see the difference.
Ajai, can I use your pictures for personal non-commercial purposes.
ReplyDeleteAjay where is the trigger mechanism of the ubgl
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Anon 00:41
ReplyDeleteIndians seem to lack the aesthetics when it comes to designing stuff. The orange for instance makes it look ugly. While the design of the weapon is very good, looks aren't appealing. I hope this is the best weapon we can get our soldiers, I wouldnt want them at any disadvantage for the sake of saving money.
How My God !
ReplyDeleteI really do not know why we all become expert in others business. The case in point is the the junos and the DRDO have started dictating what a soldier actually requires.
Look, 5.56 calibre INSAS, long nose, high ballistics bullets pierce across a human body like a bloody needle. It hurts. It does not kill.
That is a good philosophy for Conventional war. Soldier wounded - then two men required to carry him back then a doctor requirement increases, logistic load and wieght decreases etc ect and many more.
But what is majority of Army doing today? Counter insugency. Thsi INSAs does not meet the requirement od one magazine burst, one round kill, less stopping power and more wound ballistic.
One bloody terrorist is hit with ten bullets and he stll survives to pump in his AK amo into the soldier. The terrorist survives but the soldier dies?
Can any one give you a better picture than that.
Do you all DRDO professional want your soldiers to die when he encounters a terrorist inspite of your fentastic gun.
There are thousands more defects in in weapons. Since you all have taken an indirect root, let the issue be decided by the media and the public. Is it?
Is Army meant to support your professions and your empires with their blood and national losses?
Come of it. At least listen to professional soldiers who are as proud of you as any one else.
Pinaka for Arty as the main arty ! You all must be nuts ! Let IA Chief say that who has the obligation to say that for the Army and the Country? who the hell are you? Citizen, you say ! So is the soldier. Or DRDO will be made to face the real "Pinakas".
You juviniles are bent upon rewritting our military manual now !
Make something better and stop this media campign.
@ nagarajan
ReplyDeletehttp://www.defenceforum.in/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1266&d=1280594504
This is cutout of second pic(posted above), i have circled the trigger button in red.
May not be needed but explaining.
The trigger seems to be very well thought of, i mean unlike other UBGLs which has conventional pull trigger the ARDE UGBL has button type press trigger and allows soldier to keep his finger on gun trigger while firing UBGL.
Mr Shukla as a continuation to Anon 00:41's quest. I am curious why the INSAS has been using that particular colour scheme all this time. Can anybody answer that question of mine?
ReplyDeleteAs others have said, get rid of this orange-brown stock colour and change to either all black or snow-white or terrain-matching colour.
ReplyDeleteAnd give it a powder coated matt finish instead of gloss that would shine in sunlight.
people, OFB can produce black INSAS if army asks for it, the ones we delivered to nepal are all black in colour.
ReplyDeletearmy chose this orange colour because black heats up very quickly under the hot Indian sun. a soldier has to care about much more important things than looking good.
PackLeader says...
ReplyDeleteTO: arjuntankfan 30 July 2010 11:52
My friend, unfortunately I don't agree. In my opinion, the DRDO will not be able to put together a good enough gun. DRDO will then use pressure tactics to ram it down the Army's throat.
If DRDO is to ever prove itself, it should be capable of pitting weapon systems against other vendors and win the order after the usual technical trials (like the one for MMRCA). Further, they should be able to bid not only for Indian tenders but also for tenders floated worldwide.
On another note, Army-bashers-cum-conspiracy-therorists should accept that the ability or inability of DRDO to sell outside India is perhaps the best judge of DRDO's products. How big are the DRDO's orderbooks? Being able to deliver on-time and to-spec and then winning the bid whold prove if DRDO is any good.
@Anand
ReplyDeleteSo that enemy can spot the gun and therefor the man, even in night and will get sacred of the weapon. Not because of its kill probability, but may be just wounding and that will be painful :)
They seems to be inspired by Ramanand Sagar's Alif Laila
Ajay Shukla, MoD mendarin and others need to read this piece from a well respected analyst :
ReplyDelete(http://www.india-seminar.com/semsearch.htm)
STEPHEN PHILIP COHEN in Jul issue of Seminar
and he says:
The problem with the DRDO is ideological corruption. For decades, the Indian government has accepted dishonest promises made by DRDO as the basis for providing billions of dollars of support because of the persisting ideology of autarky. The greatest success of military research in India comes not from the DRDO, but from the Atomic Energy Commission, which built the nuclear devices. But the government has been unwilling to subject DRDO to public accountability – claims of military secrets are disingenuous because the organization is not developing a weapon as yet uninvented; most of its work is reverse engineering. Instead, the head of DRDO serves as the defence minister’s scientific adviser. The two positions – of supplier and adviser – bring inherent conflict of interest, but this has not been an issue in India at all.
some more sane advises before any one from any side makes jamming noises !
As the color orange is so bad for this purpose, then who at first place selected it and why. It looks excellent at least in parades.
ReplyDeleteRaj:
ReplyDeleteI'm a bit alarmed! What "personal, non-commercial" uses could you possibly put my photo to?
Ajai
Anonymous 21:30:
ReplyDeleteYou write, "How My God !
I really do not know why we all become expert in others business. The case in point is the the junos and the DRDO have started dictating what a soldier actually requires."
What exactly are "junos"?
You write, "Look, 5.56 calibre INSAS, long nose, high ballistics bullets pierce across a human body like a bloody needle. It hurts. It does not kill."
Anonymous, there is nothing known as "high ballistics". If you are actually a soldier, as you claim to be, do go and read up on your profession.
Next, the performance of INSAS ammunition --- as described by you in your semi-educated post (what the hell is "pierce across"? Do you mean "pierce through"?) --- is exactly in accordance with the GSQR that was framed by the army. The army specifically asked for a high-velocity, steel-jacketed bullet that would pierce through an enemy.
Now, after twenty years of J&K, the army has asked for a bullet that stops an insurgent cold... rather than piercing through him. And the DRDO is working on a different ammunition that redistributes its energy within the target, rather than piercing through him. It is expected to be in trials soon.
You young guns would do well to realise that everyone around you is not a complete idiot. Very often, the problem with a less-than-adequate piece of equipment is the poor framing of requirements by the user.
This is not to say that the DRDO is anywhere close to perfect. My simple point is: when faced with a problem, find out where the mistake lies instead of blaming everyone else in a knee-jerk fashion.
Anonymous, you also write: "But what is majority of Army doing today? Counter insugency."
So have you ever asked your senior officers why such a high percentage of army procurement is hot war equipment, specifically tanks and fancy equipment for strike corps?
No you haven't, obviously! Because that takes more guts than blaming the DRDO for all your problems.
Anonymous, you write: "You juviniles are bent upon rewritting our military manual now !"
My friend, it is spelt "juveniles". And it is "rewriting".
But, as they say on TV, stay with us. You'll get better.
Anonymous 21:30:
ReplyDeleteYou write, "How My God !
I really do not know why we all become expert in others business. The case in point is the the junos and the DRDO have started dictating what a soldier actually requires."
What exactly are "junos"?
You write, "Look, 5.56 calibre INSAS, long nose, high ballistics bullets pierce across a human body like a bloody needle. It hurts. It does not kill."
Anonymous, there is nothing known as "high ballistics". If you are actually a soldier, as you claim to be, do go and read up on your profession.
Next, the performance of INSAS ammunition --- as described by you in your semi-educated post (what the hell is "pierce across"? Do you mean "pierce through"?) --- is exactly in accordance with the GSQR that was framed by the army. The army specifically asked for a high-velocity, steel-jacketed bullet that would pierce through an enemy.
Now, after twenty years of J&K, the army has asked for a bullet that stops an insurgent cold... rather than piercing through him. And the DRDO is working on a different ammunition that redistributes its energy within the target, rather than piercing through him. It is expected to be in trials soon.
You young guns would do well to realise that everyone around you is not a complete idiot. Very often, the problem with a less-than-adequate piece of equipment is the poor framing of requirements by the user.
This is not to say that the DRDO is anywhere close to perfect. My simple point is: when faced with a problem, find out where the mistake lies instead of blaming everyone else in a knee-jerk fashion.
Anonymous, you also write: "But what is majority of Army doing today? Counter insugency."
So have you ever asked your senior officers why such a high percentage of army procurement is hot war equipment, specifically tanks and fancy equipment for strike corps?
No you haven't, obviously! Because that takes more guts than blaming the DRDO for all your problems.
there is a good reason people should have to give an exam before being let on the internet, it is surprising to see so many people become instant experts in areas like ballistics, at the drop of the hat.
ReplyDeleteThe orange fixtures are possibly an artifact of the material that they are made of which to the best of my knowledge is glass fiber reinforced poly amide.
The 5.56x45mm round the INSAS has been chambered to has been designed to fragment in a fleshy target. The fragmentation process is seeded by the hydrostatic shock produced by the bullet upon entry in to the target's body. In addition the bullet is not completely solid, these rounds are standard steel jacketed round that have an airgap in the front of the round within the cone so as to shift the center of gravity to improve flight characteristics and impact characteristics. One other interesting thing to note is that not only do bullets fly in a parabolic trajectory they are rotating along their longitudnal axis to induce a gyroscopic stability(through rifling the bore), this causes the bullet to wobble and at high enough range the wobble manifests itself as a tumble severely degrading ballistic and wounding performance.
A good place to read should be dr. martin fackler's study into battlefield wounding.
@fighterclass.. so.. according to you, the couple of streaks of orange make the gun "cooler" in the hot indian sun? Are you a moron? that sort of crap would stand out if the soldier is trying to hide. Are you saying US soldiers in iraq and afghanistan experience "hot" guns because they are all black? seriously man.. DRDO is like most PSUs, making products that look substandard even if they are top-notch. If you want to know what guns should look like, check out the american guns, afterall they are the best in the business.
ReplyDeleteIs this UBGL exclusively meant for the INSAS or can it be fitted on the Tavor also? The Tavor I believe uses a Turkish UBGL
ReplyDeleteAjai,
ReplyDeleteWhat's the weight of this UBGL, is it lighter than the Turkish once procured by the army.
TIA,
Senthil
I am curious why the INSAS has been using that particular colour scheme all this time?
ReplyDeleteso that it looks wood which it is not !
The loosers...
Ra, you are clearly the moron, you have an absolute monopoly on being a moron.
ReplyDeletenow onto the issue, you should ask the Indian Army, since they decided on the colour. since you have clearly never stepped out of concrete jungles, let me tell you that the reddish brown colour of INSAS furniture blends in quite well in Indian environments.
in terrains where they dont, they always have the option of using jackets, check out recent pictures of jawans in siachen (they use white jackets for INSAS) or the IAF Garuds from AI09, they use sand coloured jackets.
what US does is irrelevant. the Indian Army does not gain its operational knowledge from watching discovery channel, but from actual battles it has to fight.
Hi Ajai,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the photos.
Is it possible to post the photos of the posters on the wall? it contains lots of info like one poster contains different grenade types, another one contains different bullet type, and most importantaly couple of posters have info on multi caliber individual weapon and F-INSAS.
if possibleplease post the photos of the posters on the walls. Thanks in advance.
@fighterclass, you should go back to that slum of a place you call bharat-ratshak. All you people ever do is talk about stuff which you have no hands on knowledge about. You guys talk about everything as if you are the people who've done the research. In reality, all you are is a bunch of arm chair scientists who chuck links at each other and call it "knowledge".
ReplyDeleteThe US is relevant here in that they DO have the most combat experience around the world. If YOU think that there is nothing to learn from them, then you are clearly ignorant since the IA thinks otherwise (which is why they have joint ops with them and others).
I don't know what "jungles" you've been to, but none of the ones I've been to in india have ORANGE trees and bushes. Maybe you can point me to one which does have a matching colour?
Maybe IA chose this colour, maybe it didn't. I dont know, but if it did I would like to know on what basis it did.
Those who visit this blog are here to learn, and from someone MUCH MORE experienced such as Ajai, and it doesn't include you. Keep your ignorant thoughts to yourself.
oh.. and by the way, what do JACKETS have anything to do with the freaking guns standing out like sore thumbs?? are you saying the soldiers have to hide their guns behind their jackets and when they see the enemy fire through the jackets? Listen to your stupid ignorant talk!
ReplyDeleteWhy does this gun look so cheap? The colour is not nice. Is this something indians like? Whats the quality of this weapon?
ReplyDeleteDear brothers,
ReplyDeleteWhy you all are shouting in name of color ? does it matter ? does it needs to be in fashion contest. Sorry but please do not drive the objective in wrong direction. Like stupids we are discussing the color, what the hell Orange will make difference to performance ? please be objective. DO not misguide the discussion and do not behave like that we all are born with arms.
Ajai, regarding the post by anon@31 July 2010 21:30 .. it is clear he is one of the arm-chair scientists at the ratshak website. This is the kind of rubbish they talk about everyday, when they dont know something they make it up.
ReplyDeleteBy "high ballistics" I guess this jingo (this is what each arm-chair ratshak scientist call each other on their website) means the shots fired when a soldier is high. But he fails to realise that soldiers aren't high. He and his ratshak friends are high!
J, you are a complete moron who can't find his backside without a GPS and 40 whippings to get you use it properly.
ReplyDeleteI said gun jacket which any person with half a brain would understand to be a jacket for the gun, not the one worn by the soldier, although a monkey with a keyboard like you won't know the difference.
as for the US, the black furniture of M-16's get very heated in both iraq and afghanistan forcing US army soldiers to use heavy duty leather gloves in the hot weather.
except in the colder mountain passes of afg, US army soldiers throughout use gloves.
you don't have to believe me, ask a friend who has operated in iraq or afg (I forgot, you don't have a life outside trolling the internet) or at the very least use google and read some reports on the US army in iraq and afg.
now whether you are here or at bharatrakshak, you are a complete ass, you don't go anywhere to learn but to troll. a donkey like you is a donkey wherever you go, so do not pretend as if you are trying to be a serious contributor.
J, Ra, and Fighterclass:
ReplyDeleteThe mutual name-calling is over. Please just stick to the issues now.
I'm sure the colour orange, objectionable though it might be to many, is not worth getting so exercised about!
Just to let you know, when many of us are deployed in CI operations in J&K and the northeast, we stitch camouflage pattern cloth over the butt and the grip in front. Covers the orange; makes us feel real cool.
Mertz:
The 5.56 INSAS looks cheap because it was laid down that the rifle should not cost more than Rs 19,000/-. In other words, it looks cheap because it is cheap. Okay?
Thank you for the answer. That is what 200-300 euro#s. Not a bad price actually.
ReplyDeleteajai, does this gun cost only 19k? are they not compromising on various things (like accuracy, reliability etc) for the sake of low cost? would this not put every soldiers life in jeopardy?
ReplyDeleteThere is no design flaw in the INSAS rifle that compromises its accuracy or reliability. It is a simple, utility rifle, devoid of bells and whistles, which does a decent job of shooting straight by day.
ReplyDeleteI've carried it in CI operations in J&K in 1998-99 and the INSAS rifle never gave me a problem.
Of late, a few problems were reported... but all of those were traced back to poor quality control during manufacture. One could argue that the low cost of the rifle is a function of the low investment in the manufacturing line at the Ordnance factory where the INSAS rifle is mass manufactured. To that extent, the flaws are related to the low cost.
ajai, I didn't start it. if you allow someone to call me a moron, fairness dictates that the same privilege be extended to me.
ReplyDeletepersonally, I really dislike foul-mouthing. but that doesn't mean I'll take it lying down.
interesting to know that you have participated in CI operations. did you volunteer for RR ? might we get a glimpse of that time in the blog one day ?
I want pink furniture on the INSAS . It shall end all controversies. The Pakis & the Chinks will die of laughing.
ReplyDeletewhen do we begin trials for the new assault rifle ? and wat would be the time frame for its induction?
ReplyDeleteI've heard reports that the magazine is quite fragile, is it true ???
Ajai Ji, why is the army trying to replace the INSAS rifle? Cant they ask for upgradation of the rifle instead of buying imported stuff? Recently they have issued RPF for new lighter assualt rifle
ReplyDeletefor all in this blog, INSAS is good rifle with very good accuracy and lesser weight..
ReplyDeleteyes, some flaws can be noticed during CI Ops like its lethal power,fragility of the magazine,low quality of alloy/metal causing breakage in the body and other mechanisms, stoppages when used under rough conditions, has sharp edges at many points causing cuts, at times, though negligible. moreover, it needs proper cleaning and require good maintenance.
About the colour, it also comes in black and fold butts too..but as mentioned by Ajai, looks pretty cool when wrapped with camouflaged pattern clothes.We painted it with spray paints with black, olive green and tinge of yellow...looks much cooler.. i will post a photo of the same later..